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	<title>Comments on: Virginity 2.0 &#8211; Post Cherry-Pop Purity.</title>
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	<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650</link>
	<description>CURRENT. CULTURAL. CONTROVERSIAL.</description>
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		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1623</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1623</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately most sex-ed programs seem to grow out of one group&#039;s agenda or another. The Left wants to throw out abstinence as unrealistic, while the Right wants abstinence exclusively. A well-rounded education should, as Liz pointed out, teach that abstinence is the safest and best practice, but it should also teach young people who to be responsible if they do choose to become active. It needs to be taught in middle-school as well. 

Though, I also think parents need to be able to opt out of any sex ed classes as long as they pledge to talk to their kids about it themselves. Parents need to have a say in this because it&#039;s not about empirical information as most classes are, but about lifestyle, and parents have the right to choose what kind of lifestyle they want their children to learn from a young age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately most sex-ed programs seem to grow out of one group&#8217;s agenda or another. The Left wants to throw out abstinence as unrealistic, while the Right wants abstinence exclusively. A well-rounded education should, as Liz pointed out, teach that abstinence is the safest and best practice, but it should also teach young people who to be responsible if they do choose to become active. It needs to be taught in middle-school as well. </p>
<p>Though, I also think parents need to be able to opt out of any sex ed classes as long as they pledge to talk to their kids about it themselves. Parents need to have a say in this because it&#8217;s not about empirical information as most classes are, but about lifestyle, and parents have the right to choose what kind of lifestyle they want their children to learn from a young age.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1622</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1622</guid>
		<description>Of course there&#039;s nothing wrong with celibacy if that&#039;s your choice - as you pointed out, Paul actually said it&#039;s the best choice for those who want to devote their lives to ministry. The problem is when celibacy is mandated. 

I&#039;ve heard this accusation about the Right legislating morality a lot from the Left, and to me it&#039;s an oversimplification that doesn&#039;t do justice to the conservative point of view. The reason many are anti-abortion is because they think that logically a child inside the womb is still human and so should be protected by the law like the rest of us. It&#039;s not more legislating morality than it is to have a law against murdering someone, because that&#039;s what abortion is to a large amount of people. 

Additionally the Right&#039;s attempt to pass laws against gay marriage is usually a reaction to the Left&#039;s redefining marriage. Homosexuals can have the same rights as heterosexuals without redefining marriage to fit their agenda. Though there may be many on the right who don&#039;t think homosexuals should have the rights of a married a couple, I have a problem with that because I think that is legislating morality. But it also doesn&#039;t make sense to say that a homosexual relationship is the same as a heterosexual one. Men and women are different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course there&#8217;s nothing wrong with celibacy if that&#8217;s your choice &#8211; as you pointed out, Paul actually said it&#8217;s the best choice for those who want to devote their lives to ministry. The problem is when celibacy is mandated. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard this accusation about the Right legislating morality a lot from the Left, and to me it&#8217;s an oversimplification that doesn&#8217;t do justice to the conservative point of view. The reason many are anti-abortion is because they think that logically a child inside the womb is still human and so should be protected by the law like the rest of us. It&#8217;s not more legislating morality than it is to have a law against murdering someone, because that&#8217;s what abortion is to a large amount of people. </p>
<p>Additionally the Right&#8217;s attempt to pass laws against gay marriage is usually a reaction to the Left&#8217;s redefining marriage. Homosexuals can have the same rights as heterosexuals without redefining marriage to fit their agenda. Though there may be many on the right who don&#8217;t think homosexuals should have the rights of a married a couple, I have a problem with that because I think that is legislating morality. But it also doesn&#8217;t make sense to say that a homosexual relationship is the same as a heterosexual one. Men and women are different.</p>
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		<title>By: Bjorn</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1606</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1606</guid>
		<description>Micah, like your acknowledgement of the complexity of sexual issues/problems.  But I don&#039;t think secular humanists are shoving their sexual views down the throats of conservatives.  If anything, the Right has a tendency to try to legislate their take on morality with anti-abortion laws and denying gay rights.  Religion and accompanying social practices should not be legislated.  It is unAmerican.  The Separation of Church and State is something that the religious conservative really struggles with.  Oh,.. and what&#039;s so wrong with celibacy?  If you are a Christian then surely you agree with people&#039;s right to following the Pauline model?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Micah, like your acknowledgement of the complexity of sexual issues/problems.  But I don&#8217;t think secular humanists are shoving their sexual views down the throats of conservatives.  If anything, the Right has a tendency to try to legislate their take on morality with anti-abortion laws and denying gay rights.  Religion and accompanying social practices should not be legislated.  It is unAmerican.  The Separation of Church and State is something that the religious conservative really struggles with.  Oh,.. and what&#8217;s so wrong with celibacy?  If you are a Christian then surely you agree with people&#8217;s right to following the Pauline model?</p>
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		<title>By: Bjorn</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1605</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1605</guid>
		<description>Have you come across any model sex-ed programs in high schools that you would recommend?  Sounds like there is a huge opportunity there...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you come across any model sex-ed programs in high schools that you would recommend?  Sounds like there is a huge opportunity there&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1601</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 01:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1601</guid>
		<description>as an inner city public school teacher, I am heart broken by the amount of single mothers I teach, and I have pregnant teens in my classes every semester. Though I believe that abstinence is ideal, especially for teenagers, I live in the real world. Encouraging teens to abstain is great, but can we also educate them about how to avoid pregnancy if they choose to be sexually active? There are too many incomplete, non existent or unreliable sex-ed programs out there. (for example in Maryland they don&#039;t have it until high school, most students are sexually active by then, many come in already pregnant or with children). The teenage pregnancy rate has grown in the united states over the last few years. Teaching teens to be responsible includes comprehensive sexual education. The question is why is it so rare?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as an inner city public school teacher, I am heart broken by the amount of single mothers I teach, and I have pregnant teens in my classes every semester. Though I believe that abstinence is ideal, especially for teenagers, I live in the real world. Encouraging teens to abstain is great, but can we also educate them about how to avoid pregnancy if they choose to be sexually active? There are too many incomplete, non existent or unreliable sex-ed programs out there. (for example in Maryland they don&#8217;t have it until high school, most students are sexually active by then, many come in already pregnant or with children). The teenage pregnancy rate has grown in the united states over the last few years. Teaching teens to be responsible includes comprehensive sexual education. The question is why is it so rare?</p>
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		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1586</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1586</guid>
		<description>I think it was the way the Kirk framed his critique that sounded judgmental to me. A person can take a public stand on an issue without being hypocritcal. Whether Bristol Palin is a hypocrite (a la Britney Spears) or not remains to be seen, we don&#039;t know her true motives. We have to be careful about assuming the worst about someone just because we disagree with some of their political views. 

I guess as far as the near obsession of Christianity with sex thing, I just haven&#039;t seen it. Most Christians I know take issues as they come, I haven&#039;t seen a lot of dwelling solely on the sex issues. I think I see your point, though, in the way that Christians spend so much time crusading against abortion and gay marriage to the neglect of other important issues. But those things certainly are important issues too and I think much of Christianity&#039;s &quot;obsession&quot; with them is simply a reaction to the secular humanist&#039;s constantly advancing these issues and trying to shove them down Christians&#039; collective throat. 

It is the secular humanists who keep expanding abortion rights to the point where they trying to make the taxpayer funded, for instance, and who are constantly trying to force us to recognize their redefinition of marriage. To Christians who interpret &quot;thou shalt not kill&quot; to extend to babies within the womb as well as without, and who read homosexuality listed in the Bible as a form of sexual perversion, there is a need to take a stand and not simply go along with secular doctrines they believe are against the Bible. 

On the other hand Christianity does have a long history of being sexually repressive, as Kirk pointed out, from celibate priests to outlawing contraception. These kinds of extremes are certainly wrong, and something we should be careful to guard against. 

I think I&#039;m understanding better what you mean by a &quot;nuanced&quot; approach to sexuality. It&#039;s not that there aren&#039;t clear Biblical principles, but that the application of these principles is a complicated matter and various between individuals. Purity pledges may work for some people, not for others; each person needs to figure out for themselves how to live a life that is pure for God. If that&#039;s what you mean I&#039;m with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it was the way the Kirk framed his critique that sounded judgmental to me. A person can take a public stand on an issue without being hypocritcal. Whether Bristol Palin is a hypocrite (a la Britney Spears) or not remains to be seen, we don&#8217;t know her true motives. We have to be careful about assuming the worst about someone just because we disagree with some of their political views. </p>
<p>I guess as far as the near obsession of Christianity with sex thing, I just haven&#8217;t seen it. Most Christians I know take issues as they come, I haven&#8217;t seen a lot of dwelling solely on the sex issues. I think I see your point, though, in the way that Christians spend so much time crusading against abortion and gay marriage to the neglect of other important issues. But those things certainly are important issues too and I think much of Christianity&#8217;s &#8220;obsession&#8221; with them is simply a reaction to the secular humanist&#8217;s constantly advancing these issues and trying to shove them down Christians&#8217; collective throat. </p>
<p>It is the secular humanists who keep expanding abortion rights to the point where they trying to make the taxpayer funded, for instance, and who are constantly trying to force us to recognize their redefinition of marriage. To Christians who interpret &#8220;thou shalt not kill&#8221; to extend to babies within the womb as well as without, and who read homosexuality listed in the Bible as a form of sexual perversion, there is a need to take a stand and not simply go along with secular doctrines they believe are against the Bible. </p>
<p>On the other hand Christianity does have a long history of being sexually repressive, as Kirk pointed out, from celibate priests to outlawing contraception. These kinds of extremes are certainly wrong, and something we should be careful to guard against. </p>
<p>I think I&#8217;m understanding better what you mean by a &#8220;nuanced&#8221; approach to sexuality. It&#8217;s not that there aren&#8217;t clear Biblical principles, but that the application of these principles is a complicated matter and various between individuals. Purity pledges may work for some people, not for others; each person needs to figure out for themselves how to live a life that is pure for God. If that&#8217;s what you mean I&#8217;m with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Bjorn</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1585</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1585</guid>
		<description>Micah... I don&#039;t know that Kirk is being judgmental.  His critique doesn&#039;t seem to be a blanket condemnation of the Christianity&#039;s handling of sexuality.  I think he does have a point with the near-obsession that certain parts of Christianity have with sex.  It is an unhealthy balance and it seems to eclipse equally important issues of social justice.  And no, there is nothing wrong with taking a stand.  What I am concerned with is the naive emphasis on &quot;purity culture&quot; that seems to pull attention away from a nuanced approach to human sexuality and the consequences of unprotected sex and, instead, put faith in vows, purity rings and sappy ceremony.  Good point about the left&#039;s intolerance of intolerance.  Very true!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Micah&#8230; I don&#8217;t know that Kirk is being judgmental.  His critique doesn&#8217;t seem to be a blanket condemnation of the Christianity&#8217;s handling of sexuality.  I think he does have a point with the near-obsession that certain parts of Christianity have with sex.  It is an unhealthy balance and it seems to eclipse equally important issues of social justice.  And no, there is nothing wrong with taking a stand.  What I am concerned with is the naive emphasis on &#8220;purity culture&#8221; that seems to pull attention away from a nuanced approach to human sexuality and the consequences of unprotected sex and, instead, put faith in vows, purity rings and sappy ceremony.  Good point about the left&#8217;s intolerance of intolerance.  Very true!</p>
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		<title>By: Bjorn</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1584</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1584</guid>
		<description>Kirk, have a look at what Micah is saying... I have a reply but I&#039;d to have one from you too...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kirk, have a look at what Micah is saying&#8230; I have a reply but I&#8217;d to have one from you too&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bjorn</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1583</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1583</guid>
		<description>I was talking more about a general culture of cheesiness in a lot of pop Christianity... I respect the idea of virginity until marriage but the purity rings, corny vows, etc. I could do without.  Interesting finding on the noneffect on condom usage among the sexually active.  And as far as I understand it, Palin did not take a pledge before the Levi period...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was talking more about a general culture of cheesiness in a lot of pop Christianity&#8230; I respect the idea of virginity until marriage but the purity rings, corny vows, etc. I could do without.  Interesting finding on the noneffect on condom usage among the sexually active.  And as far as I understand it, Palin did not take a pledge before the Levi period&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://culturemutt.com/archives/1650/comment-page-1#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturemutt.com/?p=1650#comment-1578</guid>
		<description>Quoting Kirk: &quot;Personally, I always think it’s hypocritical when a person of “religious convictions” has to proclaim to the world about how religious they are acting. If you have to SAY how religious you are, you probably aren’t. The fact that Ms. Palin has spawn trolling the earth is proof enough to her past proclivities, and her now-proclamation of “I was bad, but now I’m being good” smacks of self-aggrandizement and narcissism. These are hardly Christian traits.&quot;

Judge not lest ye be judged. I get kind of hot under the color when I see well meaning Christians go so far in the direction of being accepting of those who have fallen that they are disdainful of those who actually try to pick themselves up and live according Biblical principles. Do we not believe in forgiveness AND sanctification? Do we not believe that it is possible to live a pure life? What is wrong with publicly renouncing sin and pledging to go and sin no more? 

Sure, it may very well be that Bristol made her move for her own personal gain (or to make life easier for her mother), but maybe she is genuine and she really just wants to be a good example and a voice of experience to other teens who are struggling with the same issues. That would be a noble motive in my view. So we just don&#039;t know what&#039;s in her heart, therefore we shouldn&#039;t judge. 

As for the Church staying away from issues of sexuality and focusing exclusively on helping the poor: if the Bible has something to say about it, the church has something to say about it. The Bible has a lot to say about adultery, homosexuality, fornication, and life, therefore I think the Church definitely should not be silent. According to the Bible adultery is a sin (and not only that, as David pointed out, it&#039;s extremely dangerous), so it&#039;s absolutely right for the Church to exhort young people to abstinence. And those who fail should be able to count on God&#039;s grace to give them a second chance: &quot;I will remember their sins no more&quot; (provided they understand, as Culturmutt pointed out, that forgiveness doesn&#039;t mean absolution from consequences such as STDs). 

In our culture of tolerance we often demonize the so-called Religious Right for being too intolerant, but we need to be careful that we don&#039;t go to the extreme of being intolerant of intolerance (a self-hating position if there ever was one). According to the Bible we are to love sinners but hate sin. So a nuanced approach is appropriate when dealing with people and their specific situation, but when it comes to the underlying principles there is little room for nuance, the Bible is clear about what is right and what is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoting Kirk: &#8220;Personally, I always think it’s hypocritical when a person of “religious convictions” has to proclaim to the world about how religious they are acting. If you have to SAY how religious you are, you probably aren’t. The fact that Ms. Palin has spawn trolling the earth is proof enough to her past proclivities, and her now-proclamation of “I was bad, but now I’m being good” smacks of self-aggrandizement and narcissism. These are hardly Christian traits.&#8221;</p>
<p>Judge not lest ye be judged. I get kind of hot under the color when I see well meaning Christians go so far in the direction of being accepting of those who have fallen that they are disdainful of those who actually try to pick themselves up and live according Biblical principles. Do we not believe in forgiveness AND sanctification? Do we not believe that it is possible to live a pure life? What is wrong with publicly renouncing sin and pledging to go and sin no more? </p>
<p>Sure, it may very well be that Bristol made her move for her own personal gain (or to make life easier for her mother), but maybe she is genuine and she really just wants to be a good example and a voice of experience to other teens who are struggling with the same issues. That would be a noble motive in my view. So we just don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s in her heart, therefore we shouldn&#8217;t judge. </p>
<p>As for the Church staying away from issues of sexuality and focusing exclusively on helping the poor: if the Bible has something to say about it, the church has something to say about it. The Bible has a lot to say about adultery, homosexuality, fornication, and life, therefore I think the Church definitely should not be silent. According to the Bible adultery is a sin (and not only that, as David pointed out, it&#8217;s extremely dangerous), so it&#8217;s absolutely right for the Church to exhort young people to abstinence. And those who fail should be able to count on God&#8217;s grace to give them a second chance: &#8220;I will remember their sins no more&#8221; (provided they understand, as Culturmutt pointed out, that forgiveness doesn&#8217;t mean absolution from consequences such as STDs). </p>
<p>In our culture of tolerance we often demonize the so-called Religious Right for being too intolerant, but we need to be careful that we don&#8217;t go to the extreme of being intolerant of intolerance (a self-hating position if there ever was one). According to the Bible we are to love sinners but hate sin. So a nuanced approach is appropriate when dealing with people and their specific situation, but when it comes to the underlying principles there is little room for nuance, the Bible is clear about what is right and what is wrong.</p>
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