Harry Reid Leads Herd of Clumsy Democratic Asses
Bjorn | Monday, January 11th, 2010 | 71 Comments »
“He was wowed by Obama’s oratorical gifts and believed that the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as Obama — a ‘light-skinned’ African American ‘with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,’ as he said privately.” Nice one Harry. The pre-release chatter surrounding 2008 campaign journalists John Heilemann and Mark Halperin’s new book “Game Change”, has been focused squarely on Harry Reid’s comments.
The Senate Majority Leader is, of course, no stranger to gaffes. Politico.com published an anthology of them yesterday. They would be on par with the Bushisms that we all miss were it not for the fact that Reid’s are even more offensive. Let’s review a few:
“This war is lost.” (April 2007) – This comment about the Iraq war would be harder to defend today with casualities at an all-time low and troops pulling out.
“I think it’s going to help us.” (August 2009) – Reid’s words of wisdom at the death of Ted Kennedy, spoken as a rallying cry to inspire Democrats to pass health care reform.
“You can always tell when it is summertime because you can smell the visitors. The visitors stand out in the high humidity, heat, and they sweat.” (December 2008) – His views on tourists in the American capitol.
(My favorite) “I think this guy is a loser” (May 2005) – From one wordsmith to another – Reid’s views on George W. Bush. What’s even better is how he defended this comment. Politico says it best: “Reminded later that he’d called the president a ‘loser,’ Reid volunteered that he’d also called him ‘a liar.’ He also noted that he’d apologized for the first line — but not for the second.”
Reid has also apologized for his most recent comments to Obama (who immediately accepted) and a slew of civil rights leaders in a weekend-long effort to mitigate the damage of his words that have caused a veritable firestorm. As troubling as Reid’s comments were, they only seem to fall in line with an embarrassing pile-up of anachronistic asides, perpetuated by other babyboomer Democratic big wigs.
“Game Change” also references Ted Kennedy’s fury after a conversation with Bill Clinton in which the former president lobbied him to endorse Hillary for president and then went on to deride Obama, saying, “A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee.”
Let’s not forget Joe Biden’s perky observation that Obama was the “first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.” This was his view at the start of the campaigning for the 2008 elections, when Biden himself was running for president.
Along with the expected campaign-trail blunders that plagued the paths of the presidential hopefuls ahead of the 2008 elections, check out Hillary’s condescending southern drawl to a mostly black crowd at Al Sharpton’s National Action Network convention. It is painful.
But let’s not be overly harsh on the Democrats. Quite apart from Bush’s decade-long monosyllabic babble and most of Sarah Palin’s gone-rogue platform, we’ve been treated to some real gems from current Republican National Committee Chairman, Michael Steele. The verbose RNC leader has been enthusiastically promoting his book lately and has been drawing attention to himself, declaring that he does not think the Republicans will take back control of the House in November. Steele’s record on political correctness took a nose-dive when in a live Fox interview, he declared that “Our platform is one of the best political documents that’s been written in the last 25 years. Honest Injun on that.” He’s being criticized from every direction, especially by his own party leaders. Quick-thinking Steele is never without a retort, though. He told his Republican detractors to “Shut up,” and reminded them, “I’m the chairman. Deal with it.”
And there you have it, the one truly bipartisan position in Washington, DC: Who cares what the little people think when you are the one in power?
Bjorn Karlman
Hi Bjorn,
I don’t know if Harry Reid is representative of the Democratic Party (I doubt it) but speaking as a person who lives in Nevada, and as a member of Harry Reid’s constituency here, I have to tell you that Nevada is decades (if not centuries) behind in the abolitionist movement. I put it that way on purpose, because I must say that in fact, I would dare to say that many in Nevada behave as if abolitionism were still a movement, rather than a fact of history. I’m afraid to say this, but I believe it to be the truth: Nevada has got to be one of the most socially backward states in the Union, and this may have something to do with the fact that its population is not only small but disturbingly homogenized. “Diversity” in Nevada, means that white people “speak a little Spanish”.
I’m an Independent and I have to say that nowhere is politics more transparent than in Nevada, where we regularly suffer our politicians to have drunken sprees in nightclubs, and have very public and embarrassing affairs and “sexting” going on, direct from the Governor’s mansion.
While I do not want people to think that “everyone” in Nevada is a racist, barely educated git, I do think that Harry Reid exemplifies the state of Nevada very well. In every possible way. Sad to say, but true.
Best wishes from the Red Neck State.
Suzanne
Yeah, I am sort of struggling with just how representative Reid’s comments are of his general mindset. It could have just been a slip-up but it doesn’t look like his words were said in jest… he very sincerely meant them and found hope in them… thanks for the geographic context:)
Modern racism is extremely prevalent in public policy (ie. NCLB, JONATHAN KOZOL / Harper’s Magazine v.311, n.1864 1sep2005). One thing I remember, during the elections when a white woman in the McCain town hall expressed concern because she though Obama was a Muslim. McCain replied, “no, he is a good man.” The implication being, Muslims are not good people? It is amazing how the generation that “stuck it to the man” during the 60s has given up and cannot be mindful of these tendencies. This Reid incident just goes to show how still necessary affirmative action is. Even “progressive liberals” fall prey to racial biases.
I remember McCain’s retort there… people were so fixated on the belligerent woman and let slide McCain’s blatant prejudice… And you are right, this is bad news for the baby boomers.
As a conservative, I find it frustrating that liberals are viewed as tolerant and free of racial bias by default. If one were to isolate comments and laws and what has happened because of certain laws, I think that we would find that liberals tend to be more racist than conservatives. I’m not saying that they don’t have good intentions, because I believe that they do. I just think that they focus on race too much and in doing so, oppress the people they are trying to ‘protect’.
As far as John McCain’s comment goes, you might be right in that he is from a different era that still holds on to bigoted tendencies. However, he may have just been speaking to the insinuation that Obama was a bad person. Afterall, why else would the lady be upset about him being a Muslim if her worldview wasn’t coming from a place where all Muslims are bad? Just my thoughts….
Larissa, I agree, “liberal” and “tolerant”/”post-racial” are hardly synonymous. Your point about McCain is well taken. It is hard to know what he meant to say though… just what he did say. Some of his rallies were downright disturbing with the Obama death threats, etc. I will say that he did try to address these issues so they were not necessarily encouraged by his camp…
Dude. Just read the whole thing and can’t think of one single comment to make. Stupidity and insensitivity like that amongst the nation’s top leaders just makes me sad and yet, surprisingly unsurprised.
Thanks for the feedback Vanessa. I’m with you.
ah yes, the smell of the sweaty tourists in my hometown of greater dc. i miss it so.
eloquent in your brevity, friend.
Well Bjorn unfortunately, this is the way that people think across color lines. Its ignorant and unfortunate but it makes one realize that people say racism is dead, its not. Its is more submersive than the 50’s and 60’s. And people should remember this when they talk abolishing affirmative action, etc. We still have a long way to go as a culture.
It is also sad that democrats won’t call him on his shit, including the president, because they are afraid of losing their majority. Its politics at its best.
EXACTLY. Don’t give me me that post-racial garbage… we have every reason to still be concerned. And the double standard in letting this slide is quite incredible.
Harry Reid didn’t say anything Katt Williams didn’t already say!
and here’s a piece from the ROOT claiming Reid was right… http://www.theroot.com/views/was-harry-reid-right
Oh Bjorn this most recent blog is a fabulous reminder that being verbally incontinent is truly bipartisan!
you trying to say something:)?
You thought I was the other Amanda didn’t you….ha!
thanks for outing yourself:)
I hate liberals, so I am going to be bias in anything I say.
1. I am glad a Republican didn’t say it.
2. If a Rep leader said it, I would want them out.
3. Since it is a Democrat, I say let them keep him.
4. The double standard annoys me.
I’ll end it with this. I think the race thing is over. People generally accept each other regardless of race in the United States in my experience. The people who seem to think America is still racist tend to be white people who don’t know any racists or minorities who assume everyone is racist even though they pretty much only hang out with their own race.
I have met both types of people and both are highly annoying. I would feel less confident in my beliefs if it wasn’t for me being bi-racial and never once experiencing racism. My wife is black and never experienced racism. I think some people confuse rudeness with racism. Just because someone of a different race is rude to you does not mean they hate everyone with your skin color.
Didn’t mean to get too serious there.
David, where have you been all my life? Very interesting comment. The double standard annoys me too but I am a liberal for the most part. And I couldn’t agree less with your assessment that “the race things is over.” Of course, I AM white so by your rules I wouldn’t/can’t know either way… How does your being bi-racial and your wife being black qualify you to make pronouncements about the end of racism? I find it hard to believe that neither you nor your wife have experienced racism. I have and so have a lot of my friends, both black and white. Where do you live? Thanks for your comment, I welcome the debate.
David
Your claim about the end of ‘the race thing’ only reinforces the fact that we still have a lot of ground to cover when it comes to race relations.
What you mean by ‘the race thing’ is, I think, racism, a real force in society, both past and present. Calling it otherwise–’the race thing’, in your case–and declaring it ‘done’ are just the types of attitudes that undermine the serious, and current, issues motoring the debate. You make racism sound like a non-issue, an inanimate ‘thing’ that has become a problem for people who want it to be a problem.
Racism is incredibly dynamic, though. And just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not there. Cancer can grow in the human body for years, undetected, before flaring up and claiming the life of the host. The same applies to racism. Have you considered that racism may come in a number of shapes and sizes and employ a number of outlets? Think overt versus subdued racism, or institutional versus cultural racism.
Is it possible to be a ‘practicing’ racist without even knowing it? Of course. Truly, ignorance is one of the fundamental building blocks of racism–that goes for both the victim and the perpetrator. Perhaps–unwittingly–you, too, have been the victim of racist behavior or the perpetrator of bigoted acts.
Also, try not to let your ‘hatred’ for liberals steer your thinking on this one. The topic is, simply, too important to think ‘partisan’ on.
I am post racial. Anyone who says they are not, I would consider racist and/or backwards. I don’t consider someone’s race when I meet them. I think that is caveman BS. If people want the world to change, they need to be the change they believe in. We will never be post racial if we continue to nitpick and bitch and moan about every perceived act of intolerance.
I do know this for a fact, if I had the negative attitude that my race obsessed friends have, I would consider almost every negative experience with people of other races than my own to be due to racism. I am sophisticated enough to know that is not the case and I will not live my life like that. I prefer not to think the worst of peoples intentions and prejudge them. Prejudice is needed to believe that the people doing ill towards you are racist… that is unless you directly ask them and they admit to it. So really, someone who thinks like that (racism is everywhere) is probably just as bigoted as the person(s) they are judging (in my view).
Hey, take it easy on the cavemen.
I’m glad you’ve decided to live ‘post-racially’ and I applaud your many efforts to avoid prejudice. But your decision hardly changes the world you live in.
Do you really think that identifying racism and combating it on a case to case basis is a form of bigotry? Because that’s precisely what you are implying. Is it all just one giant witch-hunt, orchestrated by overly sensitive, finger-pointing, left-leaning megaphones? If that’s your stance, then you’re passing hard judgment on all those concerned with bettering race relations through constructive dialogue–conservative or liberal.
What I find particularly hard to digest is that part of your case is based on the premise that the very mention of racism is a subtle act of racism. Your claim, essentially: racism is in the eye of the beholder, not an unfortunate ‘reality’. This train of thought delegitimizes the experiences of millions and fosters a scenario where mediators, activists, scholars, ministers, politicians, and ordinary citizens–many of whom are genuinely interested in progress and have dedicated their lives to the cause–become the root of the problem.
By all means, be post-racial, but don’t undermine the hard work, sweat, fervor, and blood of those who have combated and continue to combat the reality that is racism.
I have a lot of friends who believe “America is racist.” They tell me about their “racist experiences.” And in every single case that they tell me about their experience is open to interpretation. In almost every case, I can talk them out of thinking racism was present in their encounter. Without their amazing ability to make baseless claims of racism, they wouldn’t have racist experiences. They would have unpleasant experiences or dumb experiences. So yeah, I do believe racist experiences are often born out of the perception that “this persons is this” so they are going to be racist to me.
My main problem with the claim of the prevalence of racism is that Asians are more highly educated, have higher income, longer life expectancy, and lower incarceration rates than white people. It just doesn’t fit the narrative. Are white people only good at keeping Hispanics and blacks down? I don’t get it, and that is why I think the claim of racism is often stupid, an excuse, or at least a distraction from the big picture.
What I mean by “a distraction” is that a case of genuine racism can certainly be upsetting I am sure, but at the end of the day, if all someone does is say something racist to you, you can’t let it effect you life. Get over it. Life is never going to be a cakewalk. People say mean things. If someone actually did something to you, there is often a way to get legal recourse.
The old folks get a pass in my book because they grew up in a different time. So if some old guy thinks America has not changed, I think that is unfortunate, but that’s just the way it is. For they younger people it is different. We live in a country where blacks/Hispanics/Asians/etc. have every opportunity that white people have. I say, if one minority group can do it, they all can. No one is stopped from learning to read, vote, go to school, etc.
As for the liberal thing, you are right. It should not be partisan. Unfortunately it is. If Democrats would stop calling Republicans racist for honest political differences, then it wouldn’t be a partisan issue. The problem is that the Democratic Party could not compete without the minorities voting heavily in their favor. And minorities wouldn’t vote so heavily in their favor if they didn’t think Republicans were the boogie man.
Ehren, thanks for the nuanced treatment of the topic. Liberal condemnation of racism is more than just politically expedient… prejudice needs to be talked about, even if it is painful, no longer legislated and even if those in denial of its presence find the heightened awareness uncomfortable.
David, the fact that Asian Americans (especially those with roots in certain countries – Japan, Korea, Philippines, Taiwan, China, etc) are as successful as they are in now way refutes the idea that racism is alive and well in society today. Of COURSE it is possible to surmount obstacles of prejudice. And there isn’t nearly as much venom in anti-Asian attacks are there are against Latinos and African Americans so the Asian success argument does little to convince me that racism no longer has an effect on society You seem to have grown up without feeling the effects of racism. Just because this is your experience and you are biracial doesn’t make it true for everyone else. What may seem a petty distraction to you has been a life-long societally-induced conditioning for entire communities. For those of us who have been fortunate enough not to have suffered racist attacks, the duty remains not to downplay the problem but to do our best to fix it. Also, I disagree that we all have the same opportunities. Economic depravity and socially dysfunctional communities do not offer the same opportunities that freshly scrubbed suburbs do.
Bjorn,
I agree.
Because race has been, and is, wielded as a political club does not mean we should discard the topic altogether. Put simply, the fact that it’s political doesn’t mean that it’s not real, or not worth our attention, time, and best efforts. Look, everything is politicized–even righteous causes, like health care, children’s education, consumer protection, womens rights, racial equity, down to the conservation of our planet, Earth.
But the politization of these issues does not detract from their inherent vaue, or urgency.
Unfortunately, people get wrapped up in the partisan spirit, and, in doing so, stunt progress and deprive others of real opportunity.
Well exactly. And I really do NOT have a problem with government getting involved to denounce or curb racism. Partisan politics are an unfortunate reality but without effective legislation, the battle against prejudice will never be won. What is needed here is systemic change, rosy complacency about a postracial America.
I like it, you are starting to come around and see the other side a bit (or at least point out the faults of the so-called “enlightened” party). This is a good start; I’ll take it! Ok, no doubt the Reidisms are pretty funny. I agree with David’s points #1-4 above, if a conservative said half the things these people said, they’d be mocked/chastised/etc. I also agree with Larissa above, why are liberals “saints” by default? Somehow incapable of racism. I completely agree with her assessment. Bjorn…keep it up!
But I am glad you approved of my attempt to point out some liberal inconsistencies:)
But that’s the thing, on this issue, (race) among quite a few others (helping the poor, torture, gay rights, etc), they do claim sainthood. Reid was just playing the race card on the health care bill a couple weeks ago.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/71207-reid-doubles-down-on-slavery-analogy
This is the equivalent of hypocritical Republican getting caught with his pants down. The difference is, when Harry Reid gets caught in a hypocrisy, the liberals say “he has worked so hard for racial issues in the past, so you have to look at his full record.” So from now on, when a pro-marriage Republican gets caught in a hypocrisy, we should argue… “well he spent most of his marriage not cheating on his wife, not to mention, his constant defense of the institution at the national level.”
Haha! So true David!
Hahaha! Enjoyed the analogy. I see your point David. I guess both sides have to watch their sanctimonious tendencies…
White people can have an opinion on racism (I don’t want to be the obnoxious person thats says “white people have no say on this issue because they don’t know what it’s like to be a minority”), I just won’t believe the claims in general until someone can produce these racists in mass numbers. Where are they? Sure I have seen people show up at the KKK rallies, but 50 people in a city of millions is meaningless in my opinion. You could probably find more people who believe the earth is flat.
My thing is that I don’t know anyone I would truly classify as racist. That is just my experience. I have never met that person. That doesn’t mean they do not exist, but on the other hand, should I assume they do exist? That is a pretty heavy collective judgment to pass on a society. With no real evidence as far as I am concerned.
And why should I believe America is racist enough to a point where it matters? The US has some of the most diverse immigration in the world (we let them come, and they want to come). Some of the most popular people in the country are black, certainly, I would say a disproportionate amount considering how much of the general population they actually make up. I know for a fact, more white kids grow up wanting to be black than black kids grow up wanting to be white. People ignore stuff like that, but it is real.
Furthermore, there are plenty other countries around the world that are as diverse if not more diverse than the US, and you can see what true hate breeds… India, Iran, Israel (a lot of i’s) among a lot of other countries (basically any country in Africa). The things that happen in those countries do not happen here.
How many black presidents/prime ministers have the other non-black countries produced? How many minority leaders in general have the rest of the world willfully chosen in a free election? I know it has happened, but it is not a common occurrence. At the same time, I wouldn’t judge other countries for not doing it. Why should they?
I think part of the misperceptions of racism come from our understanding of history. Racism and slavery do not necessarily go hand in hand. Segregation and racism are not the same thing. Thomas Jefferson had slaves, but was he a racist? I would say no. What I am trying to say is that once the institutionalized racism was gone, I think it was a lot easier for people to lose their negative feelings towards blacks than some people realize. We can see this with many politicians in the US like Robert Byrd.
As for me, right now I live in a small town in Texas, but I will be moving back to Phoenix (my home) within the next month or so. I have only lived in three places my whole life Southern California, Phoenix, and Texas (Hawaii technically, but only when I was young).
Sorry for being all over the place, but that is my general take on it. I hope it made sense. It is late and I am a little out of it. I could go on forever, but I did my best to cut myself short.
So if there is no racism, what do you make of hate crimes, huge economic/social/health disparities, hate for Arabs/Islam, almost cartoonish segregation of racial communities in certain states, anti-immigration extremists, etc. As for your assertion that more white kids want to be black than the other way around, do you have any facts to back that up? Were India, Iran, Israel and “basically any country in Africa” examples of diverse countries? I’m confused. Any you are right, electing a minority as president is far from the norm in any country INCLUDING the US. I think it is completely naive to say that the end of institutionalized racism has made any serious dent in the overall psyche of its former proponents. I appreciate your openness to discussion but am having a tough time with your ideas.
At least African Americans can even run for president and have been given voting rights. I’ll be impressed when Barack Obama addresses the injustice taking place on American soil right here in Guam (and yes, we are American citizens) where we can enroll in record numbers and die for our country but we can’t vote for president and if we’re born on this (American) soil, then we can’t run for president. But apparently, it’s ok for the federal government to move from owning 1/3 of the island to owning almost half of it, and all without the permission of the people. I’m sorry, I think that the black and white issues of Washington are petty and ridiculous.
Thanks Cara, it’s easy to get completely consumed by discrimination along racial lines and we forget that geography even on American soil, can seriously affect policy and access to opportunity.
One more thought for David… racism will never be dead. As long as humans are human, they will forever be thinking of ways to feel superior. Inevitably, race will play a factor until the races are so blended that no one will be able to tell the difference… and then they’ll find something else. I have experienced racism from both sides from those who ignore that I am (quite obviously) white by proclaiming ‘White people are so ignorant.’ or ‘I hate white people… but I’m not talking about you because you’re one of us…’ and then from the other side… people who assume that I’m ‘white’ and then blabber on about ‘I don’t know why they hire locals. Locals are so effing lazy and ignorant. They should ship in people from off island to work here because these locals can’t get the job done right.’ (as heard outside of the Navy Base on Guam). I could really care less what people say. The United States has stolen the American Dream from the people of Guam. If they gave it back to us, I wouldn’t care how many times they called me a negro or a dumb local.
I hear you Cara. One way or another, racism manifests itself. It may be less overt and mostly shared with one’s “own” about the “other” but more and more people have multiple national, cultural and ethnic loyalties that are complex to navigate and defining the “other” becomes very hard to do. If this automatically meant that people watched what they said I would be impressed but such is not our luck.
Yeah I need to be clearer about what I actually mean. Racism will always exist. I definitely agree with that. However, I think the real issue is whether it exists at a level that will drastically effect the lives of very many people. I can’t speak for Guam and I do not want to try and speak for America as a whole, because I do realize that there are plenty of other experiences other than my own. All I am saying is that I am bi-racial, I can see white people when they are alone, Asians when they are alone, and blacks when they are alone (since I am married to one). People will say offensive things at times, sure, but I would consider that different from hate or a sense of racial superiority.
In terms of racial superiority (which is what I consider to be true racism) I think one of the most prevalent examples that exist are people who think blacks are better at sports than other races. Whenever I hear someone say that, I always counter with, “yeah, and white people are way smarter.” It gets the point across pretty quickly. It is all the same thing. Thinking someone is dumber because of their race is the same as thinking someone is physically inferior because of their race.
My main thing is to put racism into context. I think it is a lot like terrorism, people are afraid of it, even though they have never experienced it and, statistically speaking, are much more likely to be hurt by other things. Frankly, there are far more people whose lives are ruined by sexual assault/molestation, car accidents, the flu, then there are ruined by racism.
As is often the case, I think you need to follow the votes. If racism wasn’t a big deal, would any political party be hurt? Are there any political leaders in particular that would be harmed? I would say yes. I believe that there is definitely a vested interest in the national debate for people to think that there is some vast white conspiracy that exists against minorities. I also think that is the reason the terms racist and racism are thrown around so loosely. As long as a certain segment of society believes half of the country hates them, they will vote pretty consistently with the other half. It is the ultimate fear-mongering in American politics as far as I am concerned.
As for Guam, I am not familiar with the issue. Does Guam want to become a state? Guam doesn’t pay taxes right? If that is true (and I am honestly not sure), I would give up my right to vote for President if it meant I didn’t have to pay taxes. In a second, I wouldn’t even think twice about it. That is just me though.
David, segregation and socio/economic inequality in our society is heavily influenced by this feeling of racial superiority that you are mentioning. Sure, there are other factors at play but at the heart of a lot of this is fear of the other and an aloofness on the part of mainstream Americans that perpetuates this disconnect and mutual distaste. Sexual assault, car accidents, etc may have obvious immediate effects on someone but the effects of the undercurrent of racism that is present in American society, are more profound. Of course politics come into play.. people need systemic change for things to impriove. There is pain that is being felt, quite apart from any fear-mongering… if society constantly tells you that because of your ethnicity you are different, not good enough, or only likely to succeed in a very narrow field, this seriously affects your outlook and how you carry yourself. This kind of psychological oppression is at least partly to blame for the fact that crime rates are elevated in some minority communities and dysfunctional family dynamics are so prevalent.
Well how many racists do you know personally? Every poll I have looked up on the subject seems to be clear. Americans have this idea that America is racist. Every poll says that American’s consider American’s to be racist, but when you ask the actual people, relatively few say they know a racist (considering how many would have to exist for this narrative to be true…everyone would need to know about 20 racists), and almost no one calls themselves a racist.
So that leaves at least one important question to be answered in my mind: What percentage of America would have to be racist in order for what you say to be true? I mean, for everyone’s life to be so heavily effected by racism, I would think the number would probably have to be at least 70%.
In reality, if I had to guess. I would say the number is probably closer to 20 percent with half of the racists being minority. It isn’t a number to be proud of, but not enough to effect my life so far. Of course, maybe I am at an advantage because I can play all sides against each other. Lol.
It should come as little surprise that people don’t self-identify as racists or are able to name off racists at the drop of a hat. I think we agree that that would be a fairly serious accusation that you would not make even if you had your suspicions. And not everyone’s life is heavily affected by racism but a significant minority IS. For the above reasons it is hard to quantify confirmed racists and mudslinging is unhelpful. It is hard to argue with the life experiences / stories of those that do suffer though.
Good post Bjorn! As one article on Slate.com stated, “word scandals” are usurping sex scandals because when politicians suffer from a slip of the lip, they show that they can become even more vulgar and crude than the people they represent. Most of what US politicians say is often said off the record (thus the anonymous sources that are prevalent in books like “Game Change”) or sealed away for 50 years (I forget what the designated period of time is for sealed records, but it’s a long time) so people forget and a cloudy nostalgia takes over.
Also, politicians constantly use talking points or deliberately alter their speech for sound bites, recycle clichés and the like. So when they say something off the cuff, or offensive, we get this brief moment to find out what they really think and believe—which can contradict their public persona—before drafting a standard apology and using it as a ‘teachable moment’. I agree with the comments about the generational differences. Our generation is more open to having relationships with people of other races, romantic or otherwise, but some get upset when it’s pointed out that there are still deep seeded prejudices (racism, sexism, etc.) that are held by people in power. I would argue it has less to do with which political party they belong to and how large and indestructible they think their ego is.
Alyssa! I did see that Slate article. I’ll have to go through and read it. And yes, it would be unfair to try to claim that racial prejudice is somehow tied to political affiliation when your options are Democrat or Republican. Both prisms offer opportunities for tolerance and prejudice. Our gaffe-obsessed culture may be a good thing as it goes some way towards managing at least the public persona of politicos
I usually try to stay away from these discussions because I get pretty heated and upset just reading it but had to comment on what David has been saying especially in his last comment ” I think the real issue is whether it exists at a level that will drastically effect the lives of very many people.”
At my church we used to have a very prolific doctor of sociology, Dr. David Williams, who is now living in Boston. He has served as an advisor for Bill Clinton’s presidency as well as some other president (I can’t remember) not to mention the enormous amount of research he has done on the effects of our institutionalized racism in America. He also happens to be Black. I will have to look for the article to give you the exact title. OK so now to the point, he did a major study that looked at the health of minorities with those of white people and found that even the worst off whites are still doing better than the best off African American, and he also found disparities on how whites & Blacks were treated in the hospital (blacks got worse care than whites, no surprise there).
Institutional discrimination and segregation is actually causing minorities to be worse off in regards to health. By the way our institution works we are damaging their health, leading to earlier demise compared to whites, even the worst off white. If that is not drastic I don’t know what is. We may not be lynching and beating black s or other minorities for that matter, but we are still killing them by not allowing them equal access to health and education, and even when we do they are still not treated the same. And the fact that so many people do live long lives and are healthy and are not well-educated does not mean that that is the majority or representative of what is really going on in America. It just means that people are resilient, and that America has done a great job hiding the truth, that pervasive & institutionalized discrimination is still killing/hurting the minorities, and that whites continue to hold the power. So yes it exists at a level that drastically affects the lives of people, here in the US. There is well documented research that shows this.
A brief newsline about David below talking about institutionalized discrimination and effects on health. Google him and you will got a whole slew of stuff!
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/now/03062009/professor-david-williams-explained-how-place-matters-in-understanding-racial-and-ethnic-health-disparities.html
If I can get the name of his study, I will post that as well.
Thanks for the thoughts and the article Tania. Sadly the response to all this inequality has often been the argument that those living in inferior conditions educationally, economically and socially are somehow supposed to get over it all and get their act together. Paraphrasing Obama, this is the mentality that says you’ve got to pull yourself up by the bootstraps… even if you don’t have any boots. I am SICK of this nonsense. OF COURSE we all have to take responsibility for our own lives but the selfish, segregationist tendencies of society make this extremely difficult to the point of it being impossible. I remember being told by a business associate that what “these people” had to be allowed to do was fail. Well WE have already failed as a society and I have no time for politicians that cannot understand the need for systemic compassion and building of opportunity.
http://www.macses.ucsf.edu/News/willams.pdf
this is not the actual research article but a presentation on his findings, which still show very clearly, that racial discrimination is drastically affecting all minorities in very adverse ways.
David, what’s your take on the findings?
My take on the health aspect is that it is a manipulation of statistics molded to fit preconceived notions.
Those statistics clearly show that emphasis on education has more to do with cultural difference than racial differences. Black immigrants (which I actually didn’t know) have a higher college graduation rate than any native born group. How does that fit the racist narrative? It is also important to notice the races when you break them down by country. Overall, Asians have the highest college education rate. However, there are certain sub-groups within the Asian community who are not educated at those same rates. It is culture and values. Nothing else. Think of the mechanics of attending school. At what point would your race be a drag on your ability to attend college? It isn’t.
If you want to talk about the biggest health disparity in the US, it is men vs women, not white vs minority.
That doesn’t fit the script though. Women are still “struggling for equality”, so the idea that they live significantly longer than men is not relevant to the government-race baiting industrial complex.
http://www.cdc.gov/omhd/populations/AsianAm/AsianAm.htm
“Asian Americans represent both extremes of socioeconomic and health indices: while more than a million Asian Americans live at or below the federal poverty level, Asian-American women have the highest life expectancy of any other group.”
Again, this completely disproves the notion that race has anything to do with anything. In order for what you say to be true, there would have to be some sort of world wide conspiracy with a bunch of Asians and Whites running the show in order to some how oppress Blacks and Hispanics. It is an absurd notion and is, of course, not true.
If you want me to get to the root of the problem, I believe it is relatively simple. All of this is a function of education. Those who value education can get one. The real problem for people in poverty has nothing to do with race or college being too expensive. It has to do with the fact that they are stuck in schools that politicians (like Barack Obama for instance) would not allow his kids to go to, yet oppose school vouchers that would allow poor people to attend different schools.
By the time these kids get to college age, many are considerably behind where they should be in terms of their education. This contributes to bad decisions that affect a persons money situation (low paying jobs, stupid purchases, etc) as well as health (especially in terms of life style choices: smoking, eating habits, not seeing the doctor even though the government is paying the bill, etc.).
To end, three out of my four grandparents were minorities and/or immigrants. They were all raised dirt poor, but they all did well for themselves by pulling themselves up out of poverty. There is no reason that the average person in America cannot do the same. None whatsoever. Certainly there are things we can improve upon. Our government run education system is a total joke for sure and we need more competition and private business to break up the government monopoly that exists.
And to tie it all up… do you think it is just chance that life expectancy by race exactly correlates with income and education by race? I can’t imagine anyone taking that fact, throwing it out the window, and saying it is just race. Race is everything. Education, income, and heath are a function of race. Even if you did believe that you would still have to explain away the Asian anomaly. That takes some pretty advanced mental gymnastics and there is a much simpler and more coherent explanation. Education.
That is my two cents. Thanks for keeping it civil.
David, although I think you are right in saying that education has huge potential to level the playing field, I think you are being a little too much of a cowboy with your conservative claims. Of COURSE industry helps the situation but not everyone has the advantage of arriving fresh to the United States, free from centuries of negative conditioning and oppression. Yes, America is a better place racially than it was 50 years ago and yes, there are opportunities here. And race per se may not be the problem. PREJUDICE is closely linked to race though and the effects of prejudice are not equally felt in the various racial communities. African American and Latinos are especially singled out for negative treatment. The media, law enforcement and society as a whole as a whole do little to encourage academia, professional work or positive role modeling in these communities. We typically hear of crime, poverty, health issues, etc and heroes are athletes or entertainers. This does nothing to brake the cycle and the complacent majority retreats into protectionist disgust at “these people” who can’t get their act together. Denying this negative conditioning and the disgraceful history of INSTITUTIONALIZED, LEGISLATED racism within living memory in this country is itself a form of prejudice.
How do they evaluate which race gets treated better by healthcare professionals?
Not sure, but Swedes get shafted:) Ethnic minorities living in economically depraved areas often cannot afford the health care available to middle class America… this plus the fact that quality nutrition is less affordable if you don’t make decent wages, living conditions are bad and access to health education is hampered, etc….. – it all takes its toll and health suffers
That doesn’t sound like institutionalized racism to me.
POOR people often cannot afford health care available to middle class America. Why are a lot of Ethnic minorities poor? They don’t learn English. Teach them English, raise the average wage earned, improve living conditions, viola! Hey, I’m an ESL teacher, I have an agenda. :]
Agreed, I was referring to the history of institutionalized racism that preceded the civil rights breakthroughs of the 60s… hard to bounce back from quickly…
You are so right on David. I am glad you can say it so eloquently because I can’t. :]
One point to go along with yours. I have a student in my college level ESL program that came to America when she was 7 and was passed through all of the L.A school system without learning much English. They put her in a bilingual classroom so that she wouldn’t lose her ‘culture’ and wouldn’t be forced to learn English (oh the horrors!). Resulting in her 4th grade reading level as a High School gradute. She is an extremely hard worker and is desperatly trying to make up for the definciencies that were forced on her by well meaning people who focus WAY too much on race. They could have just put her into an English speaking classroom for a semester and she would have transitioned quickly.
When High School students aren’t passing graduation exams, what is the government’s reaction? Make the tests available in Spanish and lower the standards! What kind of job are these kids going to be able to get if they graduate high school with only working spanish in a English speaking country? Landscaping jobs, restaurant jobs, etc. By not forcing them to learn English, the bleeding heart liberal is oppressing them. Of course if I were to say we should treat them like everyone else and make them learn English as soon as they get here, I would be called insensitive, racist, intolerant, etc. When in reality, the actions of the culture-saving, sensitive, racially-aware liberals are what’s oppressing them in the first place.
Larissa,
I would be interested in hearing your take on this. I’ve heard first-hand accounts of a group of Spanish ESL students receiving unjust treatment in a public elementary school, which resulted in the group making a switch to a nearby bilingual school. This occurred in Grand Rapids, Michigan, around the same time your student was in the LA school system. The move proved a success, as all of the students have since gone on to graduate from college or trade school–both languages intact.
My question is this: at the time, do you think that the LA school system was ‘culturally equipped’ to handle bi-cultural students? Because language and language instruction involves much more than sounds. Grand Rapids seems to have been, and still is, as bi-lingual education continues to be both a popular and successful.
And, though a bit provocative, I must also ask: what of your student’s bootstraps?
Ehren, that is encouraging that the Grand Rapids model proved a success… when I have children, I would love to have them go through a bilingual curriculum. I think, as Larissa points out though, a lot of these programs are less than successful. They are probably vastly underfunded and too experimental to go mainstream successfully.
Well as far as my student’s bootstraps go, she has never has to pull on them since the school system pulled them for her. ;] Passed her right through school, her lack of reading skills notwithstanding. A lot of good it did her.
A bilingual school and a bilingual classroom are two very different things. Bilingual schools tend to be private schools that focus on personalized teaching.
As far as your question goes: I would hope that the LA school system would be equipped. It is hardly a new problem. But it seems that like with many other things, they are not equipped.
I guess the younger kids are, the more I like the dual-language model of education. As they get older, I think they would benefit more from taking a semester or two of ESL and then going to regular classes.
I think this is more a result of a culturally incompetent system, than anything else.
For example, I’m a first generation American who did not speak any English upon entering kindergarten. I was forced to learn in an English-only classroom, and was subsequently placed in special education classes for a semester when I wasn’t able to keep up. Yes, the system fail your student. It almost failed me, but didn’t because I had the luxury of having hyper vigilant parents, not everyone does, especially from my background. But if we completely disregard culture (I’ll use this term rather than race) in the classroom we’re returning to the days of the first intelligence tests. When, as I’m sure you know, but for the benefit of those who don’t, researchers found that african american students were not doing well on the test normed on the anglo students. Not because they are less intelligent, but because different cultures learn in different ways. The real injustice here would forcing your student into English or Spanish only, rather than using her strengths to allow her to transition, smoothly, not quickly, and this requires special attention.
Finally, retaining my bilingual skills and knowledge of the Latino culture has been the impetus to my professional success. So don’t be so quick to look down on it.
I think you hit the nail on the head there Jael, a bilingual educational system is not a problem in itself, if anything, it is a helpful idea. I think Larissa’s frustration is legitimate in that some of the current attempts at bilingual education are producing subpar results – a “culturally incompetent system” as you put it.
First, I am NOT looking down on retaining bilingual skills and Latino culture. Far from it! People who are bilingual, especially in Spanish, are highly sought after in America. Which makes it all the more unfortunate that they are not helped to become bilingual by our system. They are helped to stay monolingual.
Thanks for the clarification Larissa… if I remember right, you are quite the linguist yourself, right? Italian? I’m with you, education should expand horizons, not halt progress. What I don’t agree with would be the conservative allegation that liberal attempts at compassion and cultural sensitivity are just perpetuating plantation politics. The system needs tweaks but we are very much at an embryonic stage in this whole process and the important thing is that we are taking a step in right direction, no?
And German and a little Spanish but my lack of use has made me very rusty. :[
I am not surprised that you don’t agree that liberal actions have contributed to the problems, otherwise you would be conservative!
What I always say is this:
Conservatives aren’t haters who want to ruin the world, and neither are liberals. We all care about the same problems, but we believe in different ways of solving them.
I like the final conclusion Larissa… now if only the Democrats would carry Massachusetts on Tue…
Larissa, I too am frustrated that the educational system does not do better in teaching basic language skills to our students. But I think the problem is more the English instruction than the bilingual programs. Americans would be far better off if they were better with languages. America is going to be left behind in a world that is increasingly globalized, multilingual and inter-culturally savvy. The “culture-saving, sensitive, racially-aware liberals” that you are talking about are wrong if they support lax English language teaching policies but they are RIGHT to realize that America cannot afford to promote/impose monocultural, monolingual cookie-cutter-white-picket-fence apple pie consumption.
I think you are talking about two very different things. Yes, Americans should be better with languages. I strongly believe in learning second and third languages. But what does that have to do with teaching English to immigrants?
If I emigrate to Germany, should that country be required to give me classes in English to retain my culture? Should I expect to be successful without learning German? Nope…
America shouldn’t impose a monocultural, monolingual society but does that mean they SHOULD impose educational rules that keep students from being successful?
I am glad we can both plug language learning.. What I was supporting was bilingual education that teaches students both English and a second language… I agree that the system needs tweaks, especially if is is failing immigrant students that do need to learn English. I will say that bilingual programs in a country as diverse as America make a lot more sense than the same in European countries… they are cosmopolitan but not to the American extent.
I must make an amendment to my first comment. After talking to my student further, it seems that she was not placed in a bilingual classroom at all. In fact, when she arrived here at age 7, they placed her “in a Spanish class, ’cause I didn’t understand nothing.”
Hey, it makes total sense right? :[
This just goes to show despite America appointing its first African-American president, the sublimness (is that a word?) of racism still prevails, and goes to show how far we the American people have been desensitized to the subject. I blame the media (movies,cartoons,comedians) for subjecting us to racism and bigotry on a daily basis, causing the desensitization from a very young age. Whoever said the US is a melting point is an idiot!!! We’ve always been tossed salad, different, separate components coming together to create a very heterogenous mixture. Coming from a multi-racial home, race and ethnicity mean nothing to me, because I encompass all races, which is fast becoming the norm. Pretty soon everyone is going to be “brown”, “light-skinned”,”without a Negro, Chink, or Spick dialect”. Then what? Being white or black or yellow will be the minority? I hate that Reid would focus on a stereotype and think that the man running for President of the United States would perpetuate that stereotype, and then think that nothing would come of it? I’m ashamed that instead of having the focus on how we can have health reform, be more “green”, help Haiti in their recent disaster, education, war in Iraq and Afghanistan, we are instead having to talk about racism in the government??!! WTF??!!
Thanks for the feedback Felix. I’ve always been interested in the melting pot v. tossed salad debate. And yes, I predict that we and a serious proportion of our friends will have “brown” kids. Mix it up! Hopefully our generation will slam another nail into Reid’s generational racial buffoonery.
Categories